An Englishman in Warsaw

            Here we have an interview with one of our English teachers. It wouldn't be such an experience if he wasn't a native speaker from England. 

Winston Norman studied geology. He has been living in Warsaw for two years. He has got a Polish wife and a Polish son, which is the best evidence of how attached he is to our country. Let's begin!

Why did you choose teaching instead of being a businessman, an artist or even a social worker?

The reason I chose teaching was because I moved to Poland with my wife and I needed to have a job. Now, obviously, I can't speak Polish, but I understand a bit. What I actually trained to do and I can do that here is Geology.  I studied geology at university, but I can't be really paid to do geology here. The next thing I had to do was teaching. Actually teaching isn't my only position in Warsaw. I am also an editor of a "Real State Magazine".

Have you been working with English youth?

No. I have never worked with English students.

But do you think English teenagers are more demoralised?

It' s difficult to say. From my experience of working with Polish students, I found them very motivated and they have got clear goals, they seem to know what they want and where they're going. Polish students definitely know languages, or more languages than English people do. 

Who can afford to study hard, Poles or Brits?

I've worked with Polish teenagers, I've worked with Polish businessmen and what they both told me is that the picture in Warsaw isn't the same for the rest of the country. That's why I think there are more opportunities in England, but I don't know the whole situation. Obviously I know that in Warsaw you can go to university, your education is free, so that's very good. Our education isn't free; we have to pay for it. So I think it's easier for you to study, but again, there are probably more opportunities in England to study.

Poland is just about to join the EU. Will our youth be much different than young people from Western Europe?

No. I think Polish youths won't be much different to western Europeans. I think, that in the 21^st century, young people are all striving for the same thing. Obviously you're different, because you're different nation. I think most youths generally become the same. I live in Warsaw in Poland and because you're behind the communist area, I think you want even more, in some aspects you're advancing quicker. What we have developed in number of years, you're getting known much quicker and you're all taking one step further.

Are they going to copy trends or do you think they're able to present their own style?

I think it's shown if you look at Polish youth culture. And you look at the Hip-Hop. I think this is good example. Hip-Hop started in USA, they had an influence in England, they had an influence in western countries. Polish Hip-Hop is taking on it's own. It's grown here, it's grown huge, and it’s massive. It is something you've taken from the rest of the world and adopted yourselves. Polish Hip-Hop is very good. But obviously you'll copy trends, 'cause everyone does this. Ten years ago England was very popular. People wanted to be very English and do English things, English music was very popular. But I think the current trend is to copy the Americans. American youth culture.

I am following a cultural life in Poland and I must state, that in the last few years we could have seen many interesting events. We had as a guest a famous art group called Stomp. We will have an opportunity to see such artists like Peter Gabriel (ex-Genesis), Marlin Manson, less popular jazz pianist Keith Jarett, or very famous British group- Yes (a day before King Crimson). Is this cultural life comparable with the English one?

I think when you talk about modern contemporary pop like Peter Gabriel, Genesis, even in more like Eminem, that's the same. There are people here with money who want to see those stars, like in England. Contemporary pop is comparable to England. Maybe we're getting more, but they'll be coming here, because here is an audience. I think Polish people are more cultured than English people. You've got a great appreciation of your own literature and history. I am not saying English people are ignorant, but other things have become more important. We've got a great history, great culture, great art, but since we’ve come here, I just realised how much you know about your country, how much you know about other nations. Polish people are good at expressing their opinions. They can easily find their opinion about something, their strong point of view, and I don't think English people have that. English people are more like followers than people having a strong point of view about something.

Do you think Polish artists are talented enough to perform in Europe?

 When Poland joins EU, obviously your music will be more available to people there. I am not following Polish music, but I know Kult, with Kazik. I like that! I listen to this quite a lot and I think that'll be very popular, I mean that kind of music. Unfortunately, singing in Polish wouldn't work. I also know this band Ich Trio. Is it Ich Trio?

Ich Troje...

Ich Troje. I know this band and I can't imagine this guy would be popular in England. Maybe in Germany, but in England he seems to be out. He' s got a good voice, obviously I can understand what he is talking about, but the guy doesn't look right. He looks terrible and I don't think he would be very popular in England. Disco polo. I've seen, and heard and watched...Again this wouldn't be on top in England. But some bands like Kult and your more accomplished musicians will be successful.

How about the nightlife, pubs, clubs, restaurants? Are those places interesting, distinguishing? There are lots of complaints about the lack of air-conditioning.

To be honest I haven’t been to many clubs here. I've been to few restaurants; I've been to a number of bars. Obviously, there are some places where the air-conditioning could be better, but that's the same situation in England. When you go down the west end of London, you'll be paying big money. You would have everything, all the latest air-conditioning, and very clean air. But think about Warsaw's clubs and bars without those systems - they have their own ambience, their own kind of personality. It depends on people who go there.

Could you name your favourite places?

Because I am an exile, obviously I frequent places where other exiles go, so I go to the Irish pubs: The Cork Pub and Morgan's. And there is no air-conditioning, 'cause they are placed in old buildings. But I don't go there for a clean air! It's very smoky. I go there to speak to people, to enjoy myself.

After having some fun in one of Warsaw's pubs, during your way home do you feel safe?

Strangely enough I do. Warsaw is a big city, but I've walked home at night and I've never had any trouble. I do feel safe. I feel safer than in London. Warsaw is simply laid out. I can find myself here, but I can easily get lost in London. London is just crazy!

Don't you think it's caused by the fact, that you're a foreigner here, and naturally you feel more comfortable?

Nobody knows me. I can walk down the street and not be seen. But nobody knows me even in London, 'cause London is huge. I am generally not scared here.

Last time, during our lesson, you brought up an interesting topic. How do we cope with the fact, that the time flies, are we conscious about the wasted time? Who do you think got used to working harder, Brits or Poles?

Again looking at this from Warsaw's point of view and just what I know about Warsaw, these things about people having no time is true. Professional people working now to earn money and to be successful have to work hard. A lot of people, especially in this city, are working from the early hours and morning until night. I even think or I am told that students do that as well. When I ask people "What do you do in your free time?" (This is the question I ask people in Poland a lot.) - "I haven't got any free time!" they answer.

What do English people say?

English people are very traditional. We obviously work hard, you know. Possibly the standard of living is much better in England. It's just because we have been doing it for longer. We've become more accustomed to living in a safe environment. People want more leisure time to spend it with their families. When Friday night comes in England, everyone stops working. Nobody wants to work during a weekend. Obviously sometimes you have to.

So let's forget about those things. Now I would like to ask you a simple question, but if it's not as simple as it seems to be, please explain why: are you for or against the war in Iraq?

I was very much against the war before it started. I wanted a kind of peaceful a solution to crisis, because USA is exercising too much pride in this world. But USA is the most powerful in the world and they're proving that. I think it's quite a worrying situation. Then, when the war actually started my opinion changed. I want the coalition forces to destroy Saddam Hussein to bring a kind of normality to Iraq. Not normality that the Americans can bring, 'cause there are different, extremely different races of people. Saddam Hussein is not just Saddam Hussein. His regime isn’t particularly a nice regime. In this modern world people should not live in terror. Unfortunately, war seems to be the last resort. But after Iraq, what next?

Most effective countries in EU are against the war, except U.K. Poland is in a state of war with Iraq. Do you think our engagement to this conflict will be the basis for negative opinions about our country?

I don't think so. Poland is the country where big things are going to happen. Poland needs big friends. Maybe from German's point of view it will affect, but economically we know that Germany needs Poland, just as Poland needs Germany. You can't expect too many bad feelings, only because Poland is for the war. We can say the same thing about England. The political situation in Poland is difficult, so Polish people can't afford to upset too many people. You need to be in the same point of view as everyone. Politically, you're a small country, so USA will be taking all bad feelings; America is the biggest player.

Another interesting topic of the media that came to the background is the issue of bribe & corruption. Have you heard about the "Rywin Gate"?

Yes. I read about it. I am quite shocked. I don't know all details, but it's something to do with the publicist. I've heard that corruption in central-eastern Europe is very big.

Has England ever stood in the face of such a scandal?

Not at all. Obviously there is corruption. Corruption is everywhere. Money makes the world go around. But corruption seems to be a part of your constitutions. Russia is very corrupted, it's like nothing can work without a bribe. I speak to some business people, and they say it's difficult to do business here, because of dishonesty. It's all about the money under the table. It happens in England, but we've got different mentality and our system is more restricting.

Let's forget about those evil things. Tell me please, what are your future plans.

My wife is studying at university. She's got about three years left to take her degree, so obviously I will be in Poland for that period. I am very happy here in Poland. The only worry I have, is that the longer I stay here, the more difficult it's getting to go back to England and fit in. England with all the new laws that come out, technological advance, England is well ahead on the way, so in Poland I am a little behind. Realistically, a geological part at the moment is difficult, so I can miss an opportunity to work in England.

Sorry to hear that...How would you describe Poland to a friend in England?

It' s a very good question, 'cause when I go home on holiday, people don't know much about Poland in England. You've got coast, mountains, you've got lakes, a good climate. In winter it snows and in summer it's hot. Actually you now have got about two seasons. People are very, very friendly here, but I find some of them arrogant. You feel inferior to other nations, because you have been isolated for fifty years. You're so determined to have what everyone has got. I found some arrogance especially in men. Which isn't a bad thing - you know what you really want. You're very positive. I can welcome Polish people with opened arms. My biggest problem is that I haven't got many Polish friends and I'd like to have. Except my Polish wife, she is my best friend! Generally I would recommend Poland to my friends. "Come here, please! I wish you visited me!” When Poland joins the EU, the charter flights will be cheaper; then more people will come here.

Many countries have their own symbols. Spanish people are proud of their gazpacho and corrida. Italy has its pizza and wine, German have their BMW. You've got your pudding every weekend. What would be the symbol of our country?

Very good question! Jesus! Polish beer will be very popular in England, because in England we don't have much of our own lager; we've got bitter stuff. I am not saying that it represents your country, but this is something that would export very well. Also your bread: Polish bread is very good! English bread is very bad; it's wet. I don't know what represents Polish people. I can see food. Obviously vodka. That's what people think in England by saying "Agh! Polish Vodka" and " It's very cold there"...But only if they come here, they're so surprised!

Thanks Winston!

See ya next week!

Interview prepared and conducted by Paweł Biderman 4b

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Last modified: 04.21.2003